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Traicy - Sat Oct 1, 2011, 20:13
Could all guild members please read and respond to: This topic.


T3hD4rk - Sat May 28, 2011
, 21:09
It's that time of the year again! The IPiM guild awards, head over here to place your vote!
http://ipim.forumotion.co.uk/t114-guild-awards-the-comeback-bitches-vol-2


T3hD4rk - Sun Feb 20, 2011, 20:29
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    Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

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    sunspot
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    Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by sunspot on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:56 am

    (I know I will be heavily trolled and flamed for opening this subject, but still)
    (And I know I have a problem with my epic walls of text. Thanks to the ones that read it all!)

    So, due to some recent 'events' in the guild, I decided it was time to ask.. Can we improve the current recruiting system, seriously?
    When I joined the guild I found it quite annoying.
    Months later, I find it even more annoying.
    And that's because every so often it happens that I (and I think many others) get whispers from players asking to join the guild.
    A normal reply would be "check the forum, make an app".
    Some players will then just /lol and never bother again with this.
    Some others will think it is plain dumb/unnecessary.


    I for one tend to agreed with the second category.
    And here is why:
    The app does not provide in any way, any certain information about the person/personality of the person/psychological traits/etc. It is not even close to being relevant for anything regarding "Before accepting you, we ask that you answer these questions so we can better judge your personality".

    Then, all the fuss about what the said player knows about the game ("Before accepting you, we ask that you answer these questions so we can better judge [your personality] and knowledge of the game.") is in a big proportion, relatively useless.

    Why am I bringing all this up, giving it importance?

    In the first case, with revealing the personality, as I said, it is not even close to being an efficient method. General result as an example: 20+ members online, only ~3 talk/socialize/buttfuck each other wonderfully. It's not like if a person appears friendly/funny/mature/whatever in the app, he will instantly and automatically be the same in the guild.
    Irrelevant point in recruiting, I found it retarded when I joined, and it's the same now also.

    In the second case, with general knowledge about the game, all that is great. Some of the information is actually useful and a good guide to the player applying. But it's not like this is relevant in any way also, since we have quite a few examples of people with good applications, yet their gaming experience is below average (the recently joined heavily undergeared players? or the ones with little or no raiding experience? and on the "social" side: players who use g-chat for common "lfg" spams? not to mention the ones who can't even focus during a raid, thus making most raids a pain in the ass, with 80% sitting-around-wiping-qqing time and 20% actually raiding time. etc)

    It's just a clusterfuck of little flaws that are really unnecesary actually, since we still end up with average players (gaming experience wise) or not really friendly and active (socially wise).

    Besides all this, it's not like we're offering people incredible sex once they join the guild. Currently even the friggin promotion system is afk for months (heck, I think I've seen Traicy getting promoted in the last 3 months, and that's it.). IPIM IS indeed a very valuable guild but get your asses out of your butts. We're not all that pro. We don't have perfect raids. IPIM Premades do fail. We do not have daily guild activities. We don't meet up in Dalaran bars to sit and drink and socialize just for the fuck of it. I think there's a lot that needs to be changed... including the damned applications.

    And to top it off, instead of actually getting more players who might prove useful, we actually lose them because some are not willing to make an application (due to various reasons - it even took me awhile to actually make the app due to the various useless questions), or they get rejected just because some of them are not "friendly enough" in the app. I'm not saying we should stack every single player that wants to join the guild, and become some furor dumpster of wannabe's, but it's not like we're doing any better right now...

    Indeed most of the guilides are a special dedicated bunch of fucks and i love a lot of you, but we're not some kinda godsend group... especially recently...

    I think we should reorganise our priorities a bit since we could do much, much better with many more people...

    (P.S. To sum it up: IPIM is a great guild. But it's not as special as you guys want it to be. The recruiting system is greatly fucked. Our guild members could be increased a lot without any harm to the guild in general. WTB more guild activities / events / better&more active ranking system / gearings / farms / anything that has to do with socializing - aka the IPIM dream I was promised to get months back when I got in! Very Happy )
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    Mr.Teddy
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by Mr.Teddy on Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:19 am

    Ha, we do not really pretend to be the new Virtus (The old good Virtus) Atleast, I dont. I think we all pretty much agree that it is an average guild of friends and good people, rather then a ultimate raiding guild.

    On the note of having bad players, for the love of god officers KICK those new guys that arent doing shit or cant listen in raids. They are trial recruits for a reason, its to further check them. Be harsh by all means or have guild get dumbed down further with tards that make everything difficult to do but still want to join everything.

    But I however am against opening ingame recruits again, this is talked about already. There is no point in opening this topic about it, people that find applications dumb 99% of the time suck themselves and are just too damn lazy to bother. Every decent guild uses the application format, I've been in quite a few and had to write one for each one, really, how hard can it be.

    If people complain about doing an app they are simply too lazy for the guild anyway, not to mention in the time we did use ingame recruits some officers decided to be very forgiving on the qualities in those they talked to and just invited tards that can barely speak english in the first place. It WILL harm the guild in general, you can be positive about it but I can assure you it will.

    If you really want events, try to create them yourself. Think of something fun, dont always expect officers to dedicate their playtime to it every week. Sure every once in awhile a event is fun, but it is very bothersome to set it up. This is a guild after all that is not immensely organized like you said. Its a decent guild, but not the best.

    The applications themselves are actually pretty good to catch the sucky players, as long as officers are willing to be strict on it. Sometimes they make it easier even by raging after getting a bad review of the app. But yeah in short im not for ingame applications still. It just wont work, and its been discussed already several times. I'm also pretty sure some guildies will use ingame applications to try and get their buddies in, who might not always be very good.

    Edit: I do agree we need to get a bit more organized on the rank system

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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by croes on Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:03 am

    You can't really change recruitment unless you actually have certain persons which are going to dedicate most of their time to new applicants and honestly who's going to do that? You'll always have bad apples, like gashy said officers need to be pull their shit toogether and kick those.
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    2fast4ucro
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by 2fast4ucro on Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:24 pm

    more ppl we have in guild, im trying to be more strict and even rude cuz it seems like thats the only way to motivate some people
    also we should ask in app about players exp since lately only one or two ppl ever raided naxx/uld/os before they applied
    one more thing, we SHOULD gkick ppl who suck in srs raids (idfc about gearing raid since thats the place where they can learn), we are not bunch of fool who will carry randoms in icc, specially heroic, we can but we wont, and when we clear guild from bads it will be better, 15good ppl online is much better than 32 when 25 of 32 are srsly bad
    ill prolly add moar later, cba to type more on phone, fk all interwebz
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    sunspot
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by sunspot on Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:39 pm

    Well, afaik as the application to join IPIM goes, maybe we should add more details regarding actual game-time.. like.. how many alts / what professions does the player have, pvp/pve gears-talents-rotation-etc, removing that DKP question (since we used it ONCE in half the year -orwhatever- since I am with IPIM, and we used it like 3 days for testing, that was it!), maybe asking what addons people use, asking about past raiding experiences (what knowledge you have of naxx/ulduar/effing utgarde keep/halls of lightning and shit like that), maybe even asking since when they've started playing the game (not only play-time on a certain char).. I dunno.. if others would agreed that the current format is not really great, I would gladly make a suggestion-app..
    (and the reason I keep rambling on and on about ipim applications is because, if you look at 20-30 past applications, you'll see a very interesting pattern.. whenever officers were in a good mood, they accepted people in the guild on the grounds that "ok you're a noob but we're a social guild and we can help you be better" - OR - whenever officers felt like being assholes, they just reply "unvouch cause you suck / talents are idiotic / you can't speak english properly / you answered the last questions not to my liking". This is not even close to being fair with all applicants. Especially on the questions regarding people's personality.)
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by Igen on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:01 pm

    Gashy pretty much summed up my opinion.

    I'd still add that a great social guy with low knowledge of the game is better than an absolutely silent one with extremely good skills. We are a social guild and we are looking for people that would rather spend their time in OG and spamming guild chat than continuously asking for raids. Of course a man that is actually good in both conversations and raiding is the best. What I'm going to say with this is if a player with good skills is asking for an invite in game, and then when he realizes the need of an application says "fuck applications nvm then" is obviously a man we don't need in the guild. People should realize that we want to know who we are playing with, ingame skills are just additions. Like we can teach these guys how to play, but we can't make losers to have a chat with us.

    So no in game invites without application in my opinion, but maybe we should really improve our application format a bit. I myself find it a bit boring, and we could really ask some more questions.

    So I would say:

    sunspot wrote:I would gladly make a suggestion-app..

    Go ahead!
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    sunspot
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by sunspot on Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:30 pm

    Mmk, this is just a prototype. Anyone is welcome to change it, bring modifications, suggestions, extra questions, remove questions, improve the app etc
    This is also just my view on what the app should look like. And also, it's my view on revealing what the guild WANTS from players - aka friendly sociable people, not pro gs fucks (even if this aspect is forgotten every now and then when evaluating applications...)

    ***General Questions
    1. Name, age, timezone, prefered/usual playing time of day/night:

    2. Main Character Name, Class, Professions and played (/played) time:

    3. Alt Character(s) Name(s), Class, Professions and played time:
    -you are not asked to join with all your characters, it is purely a piece of information on your background / playing experience / versatility with classes, roles and basic in-game needs (aka professions to "help yourself")
    Please include your Tweaked characters in Magic-wow (if any)!

    4. When have you started playing World of Warcraft? (Not on Magic-wow, not with your main character, but approximately when overall)

    5. Favored playing area?
    (PvP / PvE / Slacker that needs help and asks to be carried by others constantly Roleplaying / Achievement Hunter / Tweaked Chars / Other -specify- )
    (even more detailed.. For PvP players, please provide a few details on why you enjoy this more / a couple of SS from your battlegrounding / arena days - good to see experience/performance; for Achievements, achiev points, most favored area of achievs, the ones they enjoyed the most; provide other information you consider relevant on your favored playing area, etc)

    6. Have you been a member of other guilds, prior to deciding to join us?

    7. If you answered yes to the previous question, why did you decide to leave / create an alt within IPiM?

    8. What are your reasons for deciding to join us? What do you expect from this guild and it's members? What do you expect from yourself once you're in the IPiM crew?

    9. This is the guild tabard (Click Me). Describe it in one word.


    ***Various situations and how would YOU react to them
    Supposing you are not busy at the moment with anything else, you do have free time to play and some situations might or might not be your favorite things to do, answer to the following questions as you best see fit for yourself:

    Situation 1: A few guildies decide they want to farm some kills & get some nice honor. So they put together a premade.
    a) You yourself, being a PvE Hero, would you join the premade battleground group to help them?
    b) Being a hardocre PvPer, would you join the premade, regardless of other players gear status?

    Situation 2: You log into the game, and notice that there's a bit of raiding activity going on in the guild. There is a large number of guild members online (some are doing arenas, some have joined random raids, some are doing other stuff around Azeroth) but there is a group that wants to run some end-game raids (ICC/ToC 10/25man Nm/Hc) but as it turns out, they need precisely your class / your class abilities / one of your classes specs. You are then being asked to join the raid.
    a) Being a PvE fanatic , geared well enough for all possible raiding situations, even ICC 25heroic, you gladly decide to join the raid!
    b) Being somewhat of a PvE enthusiast, you would indeed like to join but some things are holding you back (undergeared / not a good spec / not enough experience / etc) so you decide either to shut up and not join, trying not to make a fool of yourself - OR - join the raid, telling people before the start that you do not know tactics / your gear isn't so great / other reasons.

    Situation 3: It's a generally calm day in the world of Azeroth. The guildies don't have much to do, they're mostly bored, so someone comes with an idea (Let's do Black Temple / Sunwell Plateau / Old dungeons & raids / Achievement Runs / Let's go drink in Stormwinds Taverns! / Farm Mounts / Other)
    a) You don't want to join cause the specific activity is not something you particularly enjoy, even though you yourself are bored and have nothing else better to do.
    b) You happily join since there's a guild activity that involves socializing and getting to know others better or at least spend some time with other guild members.

    Explanations:
    Situation 1: PvE/PvP players assisting PvP (if possible)
    a) this can show if people are willing to help regardless of their own gears
    (this is a plus as it also shows if people are opened to evolving)
    b) this shows if people will help regardless of the rest of the guilds gear status
    (this is a plus as it also shows how friendly and helpful people are)

    Situation 2: PvE/PvP players assisting PvE (if possible)
    a) shows that the player has much pve raiding experience
    (shows willingness to help out - or the fact that they donated all their gear and are just generally bored xD )
    b) shows that the player has played a bit with raiding, is not very well geared but would like to improve his knowledge and equipment

    Situation 3: PvE / PvP helping the guild in various situations like: achievement runs, drinking like a bunch of bastards just for the fun of it, bringing chaos to some ally settlements,etc
    a) while it might not be 100% necessary for players to join everything all the time, this does show, on some level, how opened are the players towards general guild activities
    b) pretty self explanatory


    ***Class based questions
    Before answering to any of these questions, please write here if you are not very well familiarized with the game / not experienced with your class / badly geared / have little knowledge about the game & the class you play in general:

    * If so, would you agree to be argued with, accept suggestions, and be willing to improve yourself with the help of the more experienced guild members?

    (so as the player not to get trolled because of bad specs or gear choices, pointing out from the start their playing status - this is needed since we keep saying we're a socially oriented guild, not a professional mercenary guild! )

    These questions aim to help us gain an understanding of how well you know your class.
    (Maybe provide a m-wow link to the armory, now that we have it available)

    1. Please mention your favored situation of playing (PvP / PvE) and your favored talent tree (druid resto / pala tank / hunter beastmastery / etc) and ask the following questions based on this.

    2. What stats do you priotirise for your class and spec? If there is more than one, please list them.

    3. Post a screenshot of your UI. Make sure to include your characters stats, and class specific stat window (EG: Spell for a caster, mele for a mele DPS character). Mention used addons also?

    4. Post a link, or take a screenshot of your current talent build. Please include glyphs.

    5.
    DPS: If you are not a DPS based applicant, skip this spoiler.
    Spoiler

    Healer: If you are not a healing based applicant, skip this spoiler.
    Spoiler

    Tank: If you are not a tank, skip this spoiler.
    Spoiler

    ***About you
    The guild master approaches you, asking for sexual favours. What do you do?

    It is very likely a guild member will molest you sometime during your stay. Is this ok?

    One evening, when exploring dalaran within a dark alley, you find two guild members bullying a gnome for his lunch money. What do you do?

    Is there anything you would like to add? Hobbies? Area of work / study? Favored music, favored music, favorite foods & drinks, favored time of the year? Anything else you want to share about yourself? What makes life great!
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    Traicy
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by Traicy on Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:07 am

    Before i read the application sample you wrote, i'd like to give my two cents about your first post.
    First off, i really appreciate the fact that you're analyzing the situation and commenting about it, the feedback helps, let alone the negative one.

    Secondly, about the quality of our members. Let me tell you a secret, if it was strictly up to me, we would NOT have more than 100 members. But currently, we have more than 350 character in our guild roster. HOWEVER, seeing as 100 members are only enough for guild orgies, we decided to take it smoothly to the next level, which basically is getting recruits who want to PvE but are at the same time fun to be around. This obviously wasn't an easy stunt to pull, it was more of a gamble actually, where our guild name was at stake.

    You're right, we're not a hardcore guild, you're right, we're a social laid back guild, we're in between both. We're stuck with some issues at the moment, but nothing cannot be fixed in time.
    The application itself is not to measure anything to be honest, its just a method to prove if the person can be dedicated enough to go through the process of making an application. You just have no idea how many people want to join yet lazy enough not to fill a form, so they're rejected.

    If i was to make a scale of all this, i'd put it as following:
    ^
    | The ultimate guild: Everyone is friendly, brained, hakuna matata.
    | The tweaked guild: Everyone is friendly, lacking some PvE/PvP action.
    | The average guild: Some are silent, PvE/PvP is somewhat a challenge.
    | The basic guild: Oblivion, no one ever talks but to spam.

    Currently, we alternate between 2nd and 3rd rank. As much as i hate to admit it, there is a core raiding group in our guild that can match Virtus, gashy, but the only difference is that we're outnumbered by the category of lesser active people, thus not allowing us to function properly.
    To be honest, i'd say remove the written application, make skype interviews, do some propaganda, have a team of qualified officers than can kick without remorse, and you'd build the perfect guild in a couple of month, but that would be asking too much.

    TL;DR: You better read it, asshole.
    xx
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    2fast4ucro
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by 2fast4ucro on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:02 am

    Traicy wrote:
    TL;DR: You better read it, asshole.
    xx

    fuck pale

    anyway ppl are qqing about long applications anyway but i guess we could try with suns version, let's give it a try if y'all nigs agree with it, just ftlulz, 1 month test period and we'll see

    imo when ppl are willing to write/read/answer in that longass app it shows that they really care about joining us
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    sunspot
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by sunspot on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:49 am

    Traicy wrote:

    If i was to make a scale of all this, i'd put it as following:
    ^
    | The ultimate guild: Everyone is friendly, brained, hakuna matata.
    | The tweaked guild: Everyone is friendly, lacking some PvE/PvP action.
    | The average guild: Some are silent, PvE/PvP is somewhat a challenge.
    | The basic guild: Oblivion, no one ever talks but to spam.

    Love that scale of your Traicy haha. Agreed with it.
    Thank you for the feedback!

    As far as long applications go... I dislike them myself given the fact that (as I said before), it's not like you're filling out a form to get into heaven - because IPiM has standards, but they are not THAT great as we wish, therefor making a long app quite /yawn (like I said, it's not like we offer players something omfgincrediblecookies)
    I am not suggesting that we try our application per-se. It was merely an example that I consider better for the objectives that you guys want to follow.
    If you wanna learn more about a player's background&experience... ask more - and specific - questions regarding this.
    If you wanna learn more about a player's personality, ask more of the cause-effect type of questions, or situation-response or action-reaction or whatever you want to call it, cause I don't see any other efficient way to get to know virtual people, other than questioning their reason, mentality, etc through basic situational questions... am i making any sense?
    ANYWAYS, point is, the app doesn't need to be long if you don't want to really find out shit about people.
    We can take it down to name/timezone/class and that totally makes everything way, way easier. Not better, but easier.

    If you wanna do it "pro", then do it pro. I know I QQ alot on this subject, but the guild is very.. split in two sides now. Aka "let's let them in, we're friendly, we can teach them" and "gtfo this shit is too noob kick them".
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    2fast4ucro
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by 2fast4ucro on Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:39 am

    xd imma log in now and kick 20ish randoms for start! >Very Happy

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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by razerBuNnY on Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:05 pm

    can i just aks you where are the questions that i can ansver to join the guild?
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    2fast4ucro
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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

    Post by 2fast4ucro on Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:20 pm


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    Re: Guild Generalities, Guild Recruiting (again)

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